SETCHU: A Biennale Conversation

It is not everyday that a conversation in fashion has undercurrents of Unitarianism’s rational qualities, Marc Jacobs’ wholesome deferential nature and the real ‘real’ from JLo’s classic single ‘I’m Real’. Yet that is the intersection Satoshi Kuwata of SETCHU sits at. The 2023 LVMH Prize-winning talent is as humble as he is grateful. He remains perpetually grateful for numerous beneficent moments leading up to his tailoring-meets-film installation at the 2024 Biennale Arte in Venice.

The high-end design maverick Piero Gandini donated Palazzo Venier pro-bono for Kuwata to stage his SETCHU x Davies & Son project. Kuwata’s creative team, a well-regarded friend group, all pitched in to support a philosophical project of traditional and abstract dialogues. This installation combines the bespoke heritage of Savile Row integrity with intimate storytelling and handmade objects from traditional Japanese cultural touchstones. In art and fashion, SETCHU operates by fusing contrasting elements as ingredients to cook functionality into new ways to engage design. It is a different approach to explain the capsule between SETCHU and Davies & Son, that opens Savile Row mindsets to explore Kuwata’s skill with simplicity and texture.

One day before the SETCHU installation debuted at Biennale Arte, SHOWstudio's M-C Hill had a conversation with Satoshi Kuwata over Zoom that found its groove in a freeform discussion on the patterns behind creativity, humility and the free will fashion instincts provide.

Satoshi Kuwata: We are setting up to show you. You're the first one to see.

M-C Hill: Exciting! The Davies & Sun collaboration is backdropped as an installation?

SK: We are making a documentary. Massimiliano Bamba is a really talented video maker, but also my friend. Went to London, did the recording and made a beautiful, but not serious, documentary touch film. That's something we are showing in the space, along with this long tailored coat. I'm trying to achieve an experience of art and craft in a simple way. This is me talking about Savile Row. The things floating, this one is a gigantic, silk-made decoration.

M-C Hill: Wait, that's a Chandelier of silk?

SK: (Laughs) Yeah, it’s cool no? It is a mix of elements together. I work with Carina Frey and Stefanie Barth. They are the artistic director and creative director that helped me create the installation, along with Tanya Jones, my stylist. It's a really simple installation. I'm not the richest designer, unfortunately. These boxes are all handmade. We are trying to focus on what we like. This is Hans Wegner's chair. The father of mid-century furniture. These are George Cleverly shoes. We basically work with the top people. We are really lucky. And then we design our Japanese candles.

M-C Hill: Are we looking at a genuine candle or is that a video?

SK: No, this is a video. Now they are finalising the size of the screen. I'm going to show you everything.

M-C Hill: Is the installation the entirety of the palazzo?

SK: Yes! This palazzo was built 1,000 years ago. Some of the rooms don't even have lighting. We're trying to use our iPhones to light it up. You cannot see that much, but it's a gigantic lantern sculpture floating in the middle of the room. This is three meters high. You see? A big lantern.

M-C Hill: It looks like a punching bag for boxing.

SK: (Laughs) We haven't set it yet. The opening will be tomorrow, so we are still on the way. I like to show the beauty of the West mixed with Japan. We believe in a mix of these elements. Something we are trying to emphasise is the beauty of craftsmanship, the handmade. My teams are working on tatami mats. These are custom-made black tatami mats from Kyoto, where I was born. We are even making an Italian version of sushi. When you come to Venice, you have famous food. It's like bread with fish mixed with some vegetables. Instead of the bread, we put rice. So people come in and taste a mix of Japan and also see everything.

M-C Hill: It's quite literally Setchu trickled down to barest essentials, even in edibles.

SK: Thank you! That's my goal. I designed aprons for the team using Japanese denim. Japanese denim, it's an old machine. So sometimes there is some damaged fabric, but I didn't want to throw it away. I'm only using this fabric to recreate the garment. This is not for sale. It's something I'm using for the uniform. It just came in from the factory. Like Savile Row, the suits, it takes six months, but they made it in a few weeks. They really, really worked hard.

M-C Hill: You've got about three days left right?

SK: It's only three days. We want to make it like a flower. It doesn't last for long. So I'm thinking we want to keep the time short. We ask people not to take photos because we are doing it as a team, as friends.

M-C Hill: It's the humane experience, right? It's like, let's try living for a change!

SK: Thank you! People spend so much money to visit here, and I think it's not fair for everyone to share. We spend a lot of time and effort to get the right angle, to get the photo. I think every aspect has meaning. We are a little bit tired of over-consuming things. It's really important that we explain face-to-face . And here comes the apron! This is selvedge denim. This part we can't use because it has some damage. So I decided to make an apron. It's simple.

M-C Hill: Satoshi you really can cook with this, you can incorporate this apron into your Fall collection. This is very Fall 24 for you. It's funny.

SK: We don't want to talk too much about sustainability, but I think if we have enough fabrics to make something, I'd rather make it. My garments always have an extra flavour for functionality. So you have a pocket, but this side of the pocket, you can take off and then you grab the pan.

M-C Hill: Oven mitts!

SK: (Laughs) It's cute, no? It's the functionality we wanted. Come on, it doesn't look like I used damaged denim. People wash aprons anyway. If everyone loves it from this project, I might think of selling it. But this kind of thing is something we believe in. All the objects we designed have a vibe and ideas.

M-C Hill: How did you possess your spirit within the palazzo?

SK: Really good question! Obviously, I didn't have that much choice. Who gives me a space for free? The Biennale time is where people make most of the money. Rich people have the palazzos, but they rent them out. This is the amazing thing about Mr. Gandini. He is investing in me. That is brave. When I saw the space, wow! It's a perfect combination for the amount of the products I designed, for how we would project the videos. The focus is Savile Row yet we have these rooms so we can divide ideas into different spaces. It just works.

I think that's the beauty about, for example, American furniture designer Ray Eames. Beauty that came from functionality, and then the result became the beauty. They didn't force the design to stand out. It was natural. Frank Lloyd Wright, his beautiful stone houses too. It goes with nature, something less insistent, like timelessness. Not just because we don't have money. I think we appreciate what each object can do. The mid-century, in the '50s, all the good designs were established. And the designers born of this time, us, we copy-paste the ideas. But still, I think what we need to do is really appreciate what we do. This brings a movement. Fashion is teamwork, and we don't force it. I think our conversation as well, we celebrate the moments of meeting each other. I don't know if I'm going too deep, but it’s just something that…

M-C Hill: I tend to hate the idea of an interview because it's very synthetic. I usually just have conversations with designers. There is being interested in what you are about. What are you into? It becomes that organic effortless nature of collaboration, which is fashion. You don't set out to make something fashionable. You set out to make something genuine that's indicative of what you are into, what you're inspired by, and what your experiences dictate.

SK: I think what you say really concludes what I wanted to say, because at the end of the day, the word fashion is no longer important. This is why I picked the Biennale. It's something like teamwork. We can really build a community. And then we naturally thought, Salone de Mobile, Furniture Design Week in Milan, is a little bit over-decorated, marketed by a lot of fashion brands. The Biennale now, let's see, because all the art collectors go there. They're far away from fashion in a way, they see us in a different way. We wanted to challenge ourselves because all the team comes from fashion backgrounds. We want to learn how other industry people, similar to fashion, see what we do. It's a really experimental project. We are really going back to a student life. Let's do this! Let's do that! And we have this positive energy, made into something beautiful because I'm not their boss. I'm just one of the members. Maybe I am the leader, obviously, because I started this. But I don't want to be the ego and say, ‘You have to be like this.’ No! ‘It could be done this way.’

M-C Hill: A creative democracy.

SK: Yeah, exactly. I think that's the way we are. As a designer, I'm really grateful. And then Davies & Son just arrived in Venice. They're really happy. They're so excited. Johnny Allen was like my dad, and he was just checking ‘Satoshi is everything okay?’ It's like really sweet people, we can switch on and off. We joke sometimes. They made the capsule because they believe in it. I always wake up and feel grateful. I'm not Christian. I'm not Shintoist. But whenever I wake up, it's, ‘Wow! I have an amazing team.’ I feel the best people in Milan are here. Julia Lange helped me with casting. She does casting for Phoebe Philo, Jil Sander, Bottega and she's my team too. Those people, believe it or not, helped me before I won the LVMH Prize.

M-C Hill: Satoshi, what you said about this Biennale experience being like going back to school. It's kinda like you never left school. You have this intrepid mind that’s curious and you love the idea of feedback and then feedbacking to build up your practice and your instincts. Also, the unselfishness in what you do always comes through in your collections. One thing that I look for is, well, what's underneath the silhouette? What is it speaking to intrinsically? You give people room to be themselves. That's what this collaboration is, too. Coming together with a shared value system because we like each other, we have fun together and we're not afraid to enjoy what we do. We're just flowing.

SK: I love the way you compose this way of thinking. It's really true. We never left school. At the end of the day, we are not those people doing something for ourselves. I think we love to please people. As a designer, I don't want to design it because I like it. I think everyone deserves beauty. Everyone should have something. No, it's just like you said, effortlessness brings something good, and we do our best to make it happen. My team has been in the fashion industry for 20 years. We see the seven-year cycle, but we still have passion. We never get bored. I think because like you said, we never left school. We still try to learn. The title of this interview would be, ‘We Never Left School.’ You nailed it.

M-C Hill: You just have to stay curious and cultivate that. I went to Central Saint Martins like you. One thing that one of my mentors said is, you don't stop learning once you leave school. School is a place you can find yourself. You find yourself by finding what you're into at school. Then you have all these weird influences. You may have what Carla Sozzani calls, your triptych. You may have your triptych, but you still want to see what's going on over there right now because that may influence what you learned from your triptych. Then you can perceive the triptych in a different way.

SK: Triptych?

M-C Hill: The creative foundations that you love.

SK: I totally agree. I think that is a really funny, really creative way of looking at it. Whatever you do, always reflects back to you, too. When you take a reference from other people, we don't want to copy, but we have a great teacher who did it 50 years ago. Then we happen to get some inspiration, but we respect. We try to understand why they did it. It's not just having so many moodboards, patchwork, copy paste, copy paste. It's not that.

M-C Hill: You siphon in that inspiration but pay it forward your way. One of my big obsessions is Panos Yiapanis. Now I'm not going out and if there is an editorial, reconstitute your work in tinfoil, tar and rubber and say, ‘Well this is Satoshi, for autumn-winter 24, we're just going to make it all a bit bias-cut.’ No! That's literal Panos. You take the inspiration, but it's oblique, right? You also need the distance to find yourself within the orthodoxy, if that makes sense.

SK: Yeah, it totally does. I think, again, it's being curious. Most people tend to look at the surface of the final image. There is so much hard work, especially when you make something simple, not just design, even writing. I think it's most difficult because it requires the perfect balance. For example, I showed you the lantern. I'm doing everything in black or a small portion of white. Savile Row does not make suits in black. Savile Row bespoke is always either navy or dark gray. Herringbone black is only for morning suits. So black has a meaning for us.

The chair I mentioned, the Hans J. Wagner. He designed this ballet chair in 1952. It's actually something I dreamed of since I was 19. The CEO of PP Møbler, who produced this chair, contacted the family directly saying, ‘This crazy Japanese guy wanted to paint the chair in black is that okay?’ He's like, ‘They love it, the idea.’ So at the end, they gave me a big discount to purchase. I'm allowed to paint in black, and it is beautiful. It's not storytelling. It has to have a reason. This whole thing started with the Savile Row suit. One thing I learned at Savile Row is a dress code. If you have this color suit in 100% wool, you have to wear this kind of shoe, the eyelets have to be five or six, straight-chip. That’s a complicated rule, right? This suit I designed is to break those things up. I want to have a freedom that still looks like you understand it.

M-C Hill: Knowing the rules in order to break the rules.

SK: It was natural. When I won the LVMH Prize, my old boss, Johnny Allen, just messaged me congratulations. Johnny is like my dad. When I moved to London, we didn't have iPhones at that time. Making an international call was so expensive. Johnny was looking after me, taking me to the pub too. I used to work at Huntsman, Huntsman & Sons, 11 Savile Row. Johnny was my boss. Even before I started at Saint Martins, I was working there. He taught me British greetings, manners. We've been in touch for 20 years. After I won, Johnny was working at Davies & Son. Soon after he messages, ‘Satoshi, let's do something together.’

So I can respect the construction. I don't ask him to do something they can't do. I design according to their culture. I don't try to make the impossible happen. No! Savile Row needs to be the Savile Row way of making clothes.

M-C Hill: How did you start developing the idea to take the clothes-sense away to create a feeling?

SK: This thing with Savile Row I’ve done; the uniqueness is there is no fit for women. There is a fit for women, but it always emphasises the chest area. What if women want men's fit suits? Obviously, it doesn't make sense because those suits are made to measurements, but I wanted to bring the new balance of the measurements because it's cool to see an oversized boyfriend jacket. Let’s make it genderless. Why not?

M-C Hill: Isabel Marant founded her company on the concept of boyfriend's clothes.

SK: Exactly! Everyone's doing it! So this is something I brought to Savile Row. My clients were so happy to finally have a beautiful garment for women to wear. That's something I'm proud of. It’s 2024! But then Davies & Son respect it because I know the rules. The rules are not unbroken. A bit of the information is still connected. That's why I think this event looks a little bit cute, but still has some formal connection. You need to come to Venice now. Tomorrow!

M-C Hill: (Laughs) So you live in Venice, obviously the Biennale is here every year. Do you show the collection here too?

SK: In Milan for menswear. We don't promote much to the media. We believe in that minority of big influential people who can pass the right information in a creative way. I used to work for so many companies, including marketing-driven companies. Setchu is our baby. We want to protect it to have a really good image. I can be really conceptual when talking about Setchu. When I designed the concept, I gave up on having a mood board. That's fake. I start with one piece of origami paper. That's always the beginning. As you fold and cut it, you can see things in a different way. The paper is such a simple object that gives me information. I can really go in depth about this journey of my design, too.

M-C Hill: We are speaking the same language in a different pathway. What you're doing with the installation removes that universal understanding, smartphones, away from people to react differently than if they had that option.

SK: I don't want to be rude or snobby. The most important thing is that the photographers, the video makers, are working so hard. Their property needs to be protected, too. We think these events are not like a Disney World event. We respect Disney, but Disney is designed to be done in that way. What we are doing in installation is not like that. We are appreciating the handmade. We appreciate the right balance of light. We are moving tatami mats 5mm to find the right angle, but we don't expect people to take a photo randomly. These photographers are trying to capture the right moment. That's something I want people to respect. Again people might say, ‘Oh no, it's not very good.’ But again, we're experimental, so let's see how we go.

M-C Hill: Within that experiment is the lesson you learn like, ‘Okay, we tried. These are my takeaways.’

SK: Thank you! I think the best way to learn is by making a mistake.

M-C Hill: It goes back to what we were talking about, transmitting the ideas out of the garment into an atmospheric way. What exists between the silhouette and the body, right? The magic between the silhouette and the body, what is that air saying to us? Then you diffuse that air, it becomes a fragrance in the palazzo. It's pretty rad.

SK: That's a beautiful sentence you just said. No, it is. You know another beautiful sentence that Johnny told me? ‘Satoshi, Savile Row is not draping, Savile Row is sculpting.’

M-C Hill: Okay the Biennale, you've got about three days left to prepare, right?

SK: No, no! Actually, tomorrow is the opening. I'm only showing tomorrow, the day after tomorrow, then the 19th. We're only doing a short time. I think it's like my message again. In 5, 10 years time, I want people to, in a cute way, regret. ‘Oh, I should have gone to that event!’

M-C Hill: To tease them with regret.

SK: Exactly. We'll see. I'm really excited tonight. I am really nervous, but tomorrow is the day, so let's see what's going to happen.

M-C Hill: Just let people know the lantern is not a punching bag.